Advanced search

Message boards : Graphics cards (GPUs) : credit policy changed?

Author Message
frankhagen
Send message
Joined: 18 Sep 08
Posts: 65
Credit: 3,037,414
RAC: 0
Level
Ala
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwat
Message 8580 - Posted: 19 Apr 2009 | 8:14:12 UTC

i returned a WU under 24 hours but got only +25%

543688 392592 18 Apr 2009 16:50:10 UTC 19 Apr 2009 7:45:08 UTC Over Success Done 3,675.46 3,843.30 4,804.12

bug or feature?

Profile Paul D. Buck
Send message
Joined: 9 Jun 08
Posts: 1050
Credit: 37,321,185
RAC: 0
Level
Val
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 8581 - Posted: 19 Apr 2009 | 8:18:25 UTC - in response to Message 8580.

bug or feature?

Yes ... :)

ExtraTerrestrial Apes
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 17 Aug 08
Posts: 2705
Credit: 1,311,122,549
RAC: 0
Level
Met
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 8583 - Posted: 19 Apr 2009 | 8:39:09 UTC - in response to Message 8581.
Last modified: 19 Apr 2009 | 8:39:57 UTC

The credit baseline has been increased and the bonus reduced, so people don't get mad if they miss a bonus ;)
Edit: further details here.
MrS
____________
Scanning for our furry friends since Jan 2002

frankhagen
Send message
Joined: 18 Sep 08
Posts: 65
Credit: 3,037,414
RAC: 0
Level
Ala
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwat
Message 8596 - Posted: 19 Apr 2009 | 10:59:02 UTC - in response to Message 8583.

The credit baseline has been increased and the bonus reduced, so people don't get mad if they miss a bonus ;)
Edit: further details here.


oops - missed that one..

why are such things unable to make it into the news?

STE\/E
Send message
Joined: 18 Sep 08
Posts: 368
Credit: 3,236,844,866
RAC: 50,595,530
Level
Arg
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 8606 - Posted: 19 Apr 2009 | 12:08:02 UTC - in response to Message 8583.
Last modified: 19 Apr 2009 | 12:14:57 UTC

The credit baseline has been increased and the bonus reduced, so people don't get mad if they miss a bonus ;)
Edit: further details here.
MrS


What the heck does the amount of Credit have to do with when the WU is returned, it should have absolutely nothing to do with it. I always thought X amount of Credit was supposed to be given for X Amount of work. I also thought the Credit was increased in the 1st Place a few weeks ago because the Project was or had been giving out less than it was supposed to in relationship to Dr. A & his Almighty SETI Project.

This Project is just shooting it's self in the Foot with all this X amount of Credit because it supposedly wasn't giving out enough & then changing it 2 weeks later to a lesser amount again. It will be interesting to see what the Milkyway Project gives in relation to the GPUGrid project when they come out with their NVIDIA Application.

Snow Crash
Send message
Joined: 4 Apr 09
Posts: 450
Credit: 539,316,349
RAC: 0
Level
Lys
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 8610 - Posted: 19 Apr 2009 | 13:16:25 UTC - in response to Message 8606.
Last modified: 19 Apr 2009 | 13:17:52 UTC

" then changing it 2 weeks later to a lesser amount again"

The differnce is in the timing of the changes they have made to the credit calculations which are apparently tied to when the WU was sent out and to the science version.

What you are considering the "lesser" amount, I believe, really is the *bonus* for returns in X amount of time. Yes, there has been a lot of churn recently, the base switch to 2X flops to then 2.4X flops and also another set of changes on the bouns credit from 50% if returned within 24 hours to 25% if returned within 48 hours. Hopefully they will settle down and within a week all the old WU and application versions will have been completed so people will stop seeing the direct comparisons between old and new and begin to realize the benefits of the current credit calculations.

Steve

STE\/E
Send message
Joined: 18 Sep 08
Posts: 368
Credit: 3,236,844,866
RAC: 50,595,530
Level
Arg
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 8611 - Posted: 19 Apr 2009 | 13:30:18 UTC

the benefits of the current credit calculations


That would be over @ the Milkyway project I take it ... :P

Snow Crash
Send message
Joined: 4 Apr 09
Posts: 450
Credit: 539,316,349
RAC: 0
Level
Lys
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 8612 - Posted: 19 Apr 2009 | 13:55:06 UTC - in response to Message 8611.

Take a look at your *claimed* credit from last week and this week ... this week is much higher which is the result of the base multi moving from 2 to 2.4.

The bonus credits which are added to your claimed credits to arrive at the granted credits amount have been explained as an incentive to return results quickly as this project streams the results from one batch of WUs into the next batch of WUs so quick turnarounds are very important. Last week the bonus was 50% for 24 hour turn and this week it is now 25% for 48 hour turn because lots of people did not think the 50% on one day was attainable for most given the current configuration limitations in BOINC. This created a conflicting goal for individuals who are more concerned with PPD thatn the science to consider aborting cached WUs that would not be returned within 24 hours.

If you have been returning WUs within24 hours then the net is almost nothing between the base increase to 2.4X and the bonus decrease to 25%.

Although I am not crunching just for credits, please do let us know the hr vs. hr credit comparison between GPUGrid and MW.

Steve

ExtraTerrestrial Apes
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 17 Aug 08
Posts: 2705
Credit: 1,311,122,549
RAC: 0
Level
Met
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 8613 - Posted: 19 Apr 2009 | 14:04:47 UTC

Poorboy,

you may want to start reading about here in the thread which I linked to, or maybe some posts before this one. If you understand what's written there all the questions which you posted will be answered.

MrS
____________
Scanning for our furry friends since Jan 2002

ExtraTerrestrial Apes
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 17 Aug 08
Posts: 2705
Credit: 1,311,122,549
RAC: 0
Level
Met
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 8615 - Posted: 19 Apr 2009 | 14:08:05 UTC

@snow: If I remember correctly the initial change was base credit x 1.5, with a 50% bonus for 24h and 20% for 48h. Now we went to base x2 with a bonus of 25% within 48h.

MrS
____________
Scanning for our furry friends since Jan 2002

STE\/E
Send message
Joined: 18 Sep 08
Posts: 368
Credit: 3,236,844,866
RAC: 50,595,530
Level
Arg
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 8617 - Posted: 19 Apr 2009 | 14:23:26 UTC - in response to Message 8613.

Poorboy,

you may want to start reading about here in the thread which I linked to, or maybe some posts before this one. If you understand what's written there all the questions which you posted will be answered.

MrS


From what I read it's just keeping everybody in mass confusion on just what was being given & what will be given now & what will be given later on as soon as somebody gets a itch to change it again ... Maybe I'll live long enough to Decipher it all some day though :)

I was happy with the way it was and wasn't complaining about the Credits 1 bit, the thing I'm complaining now about is that it's one way one week & then another the next, or so it looks that way to me anyway.

STE\/E
Send message
Joined: 18 Sep 08
Posts: 368
Credit: 3,236,844,866
RAC: 50,595,530
Level
Arg
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 8619 - Posted: 19 Apr 2009 | 14:29:51 UTC

Although I am not crunching just for credits, please do let us know the hr vs. hr credit comparison between GPUGrid and MW.

Steve


It's not even close with the Milkyway Project giving out more Credit on about a 3 to 1 Ratio at least even with the increased Credits here, but according to the MWay Project there are other factors involved for that Credit difference between the 2 Projects.

frankhagen
Send message
Joined: 18 Sep 08
Posts: 65
Credit: 3,037,414
RAC: 0
Level
Ala
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwat
Message 8624 - Posted: 19 Apr 2009 | 16:39:01 UTC - in response to Message 8619.

It's not even close with the Milkyway Project giving out more Credit on about a 3 to 1 Ratio at least even with the increased Credits here, but according to the MWay Project there are other factors involved for that Credit difference between the 2 Projects.


ooh yes, it's the "travis is fixing it again" factor that has to pay extra..

<ROFLMAO>

ExtraTerrestrial Apes
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 17 Aug 08
Posts: 2705
Credit: 1,311,122,549
RAC: 0
Level
Met
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 8630 - Posted: 19 Apr 2009 | 17:10:45 UTC - in response to Message 8617.

From what I read it's just keeping everybody in mass confusion on just what was being given & what will be given now & what will be given later on as soon as somebody gets a itch to change it again


Well.. no. Just give it a few days to settle in and possible bugs to be sorted out. Then you can forget the entire credit policy history and you don't have to be confused any more.

The change was made for a good reason (explained / named in the post I linked to), but the actual values needed to be readjusted for better balance. A bug was found in the calculation and is hopefully corrected. These changes were not made out of a strange mood, they're here to benefit us all: credits in line with seti for us and a faster "supercomputer" for GPU-Grid.

MrS
____________
Scanning for our furry friends since Jan 2002

Profile GDF
Volunteer moderator
Project administrator
Project developer
Project tester
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Project scientist
Send message
Joined: 14 Mar 07
Posts: 1957
Credit: 629,356
RAC: 0
Level
Gly
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwat
Message 8633 - Posted: 19 Apr 2009 | 18:38:04 UTC - in response to Message 8630.

We understand that there were too many changes in credits in these weeks. These have been the very first substantial one since the beginning of the project.

As there is also seti now for GPU, we had to align with them and return more credits. To do that we had to update the applications, like yesterday.

All the adjustments were done upwards, now you get 2.5x if you return fast, but only 2x if you return later. The average should be somewhere less than 2.4x, so fine.

Now, we are set. The new scheme also benefit science (with fast returns).
Now, happy crunching. no more changes.

gdf

Profile Paul D. Buck
Send message
Joined: 9 Jun 08
Posts: 1050
Credit: 37,321,185
RAC: 0
Level
Val
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 8636 - Posted: 19 Apr 2009 | 20:15:20 UTC - in response to Message 8633.

Now, we are set. The new scheme also benefit science (with fast returns).
Now, happy crunching. no more changes.

Until we change again ... :)

Seriously ... not a problem ...

Though as one that was turing around most of my tasks all the time in 24 hours or less it matters not that much to me ... the trick is to have more than one GPU in a system ... :)

Faster ones helps too ...

But, regardless of bonus or not, my 9800GT is here and working though I will bet I almost never get the bonus for work done on that system. It does make me want to replace it ... or at least put it into a system with other GPUs so that I can get my average up ...

Personally, I think GDF and the rest of the staff have done a reasonable job trying to explain what is going on and why ... and I thank them for that ...

STE\/E
Send message
Joined: 18 Sep 08
Posts: 368
Credit: 3,236,844,866
RAC: 50,595,530
Level
Arg
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 8640 - Posted: 19 Apr 2009 | 22:29:00 UTC

These changes were not made out of a strange mood, they're here to benefit us all: credits in line with seti for us


Credits in line with SETI has never Benefited any anybody except for the SETI Crunchers ...;)

ExtraTerrestrial Apes
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 17 Aug 08
Posts: 2705
Credit: 1,311,122,549
RAC: 0
Level
Met
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 8667 - Posted: 20 Apr 2009 | 20:36:09 UTC - in response to Message 8640.

Credits in line with SETI has never Benefited any anybody except for the SETI Crunchers ...;)


I'll put it more precise then: credits per flop in line with SETI ;)

MrS
____________
Scanning for our furry friends since Jan 2002

mscharmack
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 20 Aug 07
Posts: 18
Credit: 1,319,274
RAC: 0
Level
Ala
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwat
Message 8811 - Posted: 24 Apr 2009 | 1:42:25 UTC

So, what's the final word on credits. I'm still getting 1.25X on returns within 24 hours since April 19. It was 1.6X prior to that.

ExtraTerrestrial Apes
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 17 Aug 08
Posts: 2705
Credit: 1,311,122,549
RAC: 0
Level
Met
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 8891 - Posted: 25 Apr 2009 | 12:15:40 UTC - in response to Message 8811.

The last word is that there hasn't been a readjustment for some time and I wouldn't expect any to happen. The credit baseline has been increased and the bonus reduced, so in the end you get the same credits (compared to the 1.6x version) for early returns and more for late returns (so it's not that important if you miss the bonus every now and then).

MrS
____________
Scanning for our furry friends since Jan 2002

Profile GDF
Volunteer moderator
Project administrator
Project developer
Project tester
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Project scientist
Send message
Joined: 14 Mar 07
Posts: 1957
Credit: 629,356
RAC: 0
Level
Gly
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwat
Message 8935 - Posted: 25 Apr 2009 | 19:18:17 UTC - in response to Message 8891.

In fact, now you get a bit more for early returns than before.

gdf

Post to thread

Message boards : Graphics cards (GPUs) : credit policy changed?

//